sabrychiaa is looking to join Lido Treasury Management Committee with address 0x83a8b5c6990cbc78ffc45cbbfe5748b895973623
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how do we know these are good faith actors?
vitalik controls 4/7 votes for exactly this reason
so we’re potentially giving control of a giant treasury to people on the internet?
last time we had some stupid vote like this we gave dragon fly 10 million usd of LDO tokens and they sold to some boomer hedge fund who is dumping ldo non stop
so how do we know these people are not going to sabotage the $$ the way vasily, cobie & co. did by going long ethereum at $4000 usd per coin?
“We”'re not giving control to anyone. If you look at the details of the proposal, this Committee will never actually withdraw or hold any funds. All they will be empowered to do is propose principles, structure them into on-chain motions and execute them optimistically.
They can be overruled at any point by LDO token holders, who furthermore have to approve the existence of the Committee in the first place. It is purposefully difficult for the Committee to do anything at all.
You don’t have you trust them, you just have to check their work and if you are not satisfied, vote accordingly. The threshold in the proposal will be 4/7 nevertheless.
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why does this need to be formalized like this?
why cant it just be loose w how much runway we have in stables and speculative assets like eth?
all this on chain stuff executed optimistically sounds like a wonderful attack surface for black hats … not to mention introducing a new governance model u cannot account for all scenarios … lido is still new … why cant there just be an informal discussion about all this w proper transparency? why does it have to be formalized like this and only use cowswap (which is relatively new).
were you not arround for the “DAO hack” ? the more stuff we do on chain, the more we open up from security threats. there will already be enough at stake with likely the entire defi ecosystem being built on top of stETH and wstETH going forward.
would like to see the reason why this cant be informal operation operating on this message board, and why is MUST be on chain at this point in time. like whats the upside here? the downside is huge, but whats the upside.
also notably, you say we can just “vote” but < 50 holders control over 50% of the supply, all of which likely know each other - $2.55 | Lido DAO Token (LDO) Token Tracker | Etherscan
ALSO, all the people u mention to be members of this new on chain committee, how much crypto experience do they have? have they been around since the DAO hack or earlier? a lotta noobs around these days and unless u have the battle scars of previous cycles u prob gonna lead us to slaughter in some form
the downside is significant, is the upside 100x? i dont think so. i dont even think its 10x…
see this thread for reference - why cant we just have this instead of a formal committee
The naive idea is that this committee could itself be automated in the future, considering the narrow scope.
This was just a suggestion of the types of principles the committee could enact.
The idea is that the discussions will still take place in the open with community participation, it is just one aspect of formalized governance that there would be a Committee with the ability to propose on-chain motions and the ability to enact them.
This proposal is considering a Committee with very narrow scope, with a very narrow mandate and with the aim to be automated in the future. Our view is that explicit principles are always better than implicit principles, or principles we invent along the way. It’s easy to ossify a rule that is clear even if some people disagree with it. It’s much harder to ossify a disagreement into a coherent principle.
But of course you are free to disagree, we appreciate your perspective on the topic.
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please address the following points
were you not arround for the “DAO hack” ? the more stuff we do on chain, the more we open up from security threats. there will already be enough at stake with likely the entire defi ecosystem being built on top of stETH and wstETH going forward.
also notably, you say we can just “vote” but < 50 holders control over 50% of the supply, all of which likely know each other - $2.55 | Lido DAO Token (LDO) Token Tracker | Etherscan
the downside is significant, is the upside 100x? i dont think so. i dont even think its 10x…
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No, I take your point–more actions on chain = more attack surfaces. I think the mitigant is that the barrier to bringing any of these live is sufficiently high and the stakes similarly sufficiently high that only very simple motions and only extensively tested motions could make it to production. The idea of this committee is that it should do very very little but what it does do should be abundantly clear and if it makes it through to production, it is a candidate to being a forever rule encoded on-chain.
The other mitigant is that this is outside of the scope of the protocol itself, considering the scope is limited to Aragon treasury funds. It’s true stETH surplus accumulates in this treasury but the extent of the responsibility of the committee is limited to just that ringfence and no further.
Fundamentally I take your point, generally yes more attack surfaces equals more risk. This proposal asks token holders whether they weigh the benefits of more explicit principles, pathway to ossification, etc. over the risk of attack vectors emerging. The upside is not necessarily a monetary one but a choice to do more things in an ossified way rather than off-chain. Personally, I think when it comes to a path to taking human decision making out of the equation, the tradeoffs are generally worthwhile. But of course not at any cost (risk must be mitigated as much as possible etc.).
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u realize we’re all about to go to the moon right?
banks are failing, macro back drop is kinda perfect, petro dollar is losing power (probably going to weaken currency soon like china did from 2010 to 2020), and lido is mission critical infrastructure to military grade encrypto p2p money.
the ldo devs managed to do all this which is incredible. introducing new attack surface at this point in time is just only downside. do this later on, not now. we’ve all been waiting for withdrawals to start smoothly and this backdrop since when eth whitepaper first dropped and vitalik talked about money legos …
the downside of this ‘ossification’ is so high at the current point in time
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My personal opinion is that subcommittees are formed to mitigate the governance process falling into disarray. If everything is subject to mass voting, similar to a liquid democracy, nothing would come from it.
Often times not everyone has all the context to make an informed decision. The education required to make sure everyone is informed takes time. Time is extremely limited for everyone. Tradeoffs must be made.
So, having the DAO empower a subset of trusted people to have a narrow scope of power allows the DAO to scale operations ever so slightly in exchange for a portion of control being sacrificed. The DAO would never move things forward if everything had to be an on-chain vote and community decision.
Karpatkey and Steakhouse are trusted providers in the ecosystem who I have personally worked with over many months and dozens of conversations. The individuals mentioned are all actively contributing to the DAO and helping build the protocol.
If not this path, are you suggesting every single update to the treasury strategy goes to a vote?
If there is a black swan event, should we deliberate over a forum discussion and hope things don’t go to zero during that time?
The treasury has idle tokens that could be used to extend the operating runway without another sale that would most likely be contentious no matter what vesting was decided on.
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how many of these people have been thru multiple bear markets?
ive been in crypto 10 years, never heard of any of these people. how many sold the top 1/3 of 2021 or early 2022 and can prove that?
i see above that they want to exclusively use cow swap. this means they will be in charge of money in some form. you are introducing new governance into mission critical infrastructure for ethereum. what updates to the treasury do there need to be? is there a CFO? should he not be in charge w some leaders of hte DAO?
like u really just want to hire people from the internet to manage the treasury for what is esseitally governance of ethereum? haha wow ya know?
jbeezy - i think this is ur first full crypo cycle, correct me if im wrong. why didnt u sell any part of the treasury before to secure run way? now we are supposed to trust ur judgment that these internet people are legitimate in managing the treasury?
really a mind blowing thread we have here
and how do u know these people are not enemies that are infiltrating whats going on?
this is why vitalik has 4/7 votes of the ethereum foundation. b/c people are pieces of shit and u dont know what motives people have etc.
seems insane to do this at this point in time.
“The treasury has idle tokens that could be used to extend the operating runway without another sale that would most likely be contentious no matter what vesting was decided on.”
So why do you need a governance committee to deal w this? i dont understand why there isnt someone in charge. imagine the ethereum foundation every time they wanted to make a budget decision had to ask everyone in ethereum or 7 random people from the internet. woulda been a massive failure a long time ago
I think you’re missing a big part of what’s been explained here. These people will not have full control over the treasury. The DAO always retains full control of treasury, the only thing that will happen is that certain specific types of pre approved by the DAO actions with certain pre-approved parameters will be “proposable” by this committee, and then executed “optimistically” (like Easy Track) if there are no sufficient objections/vetos.
You’re arguing in circles. You’re asking for ‘someone in charge’, which is exactly what the committee is for (within constraints), but with safeguards in place, and then you’re racing across the spectrum and arguing ‘well they can do whatever they want’. You want to make ONE PERSON solely responsible and in charge for doing all this? That’s bananas.
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marcbcs is looking to join Lido Treasury Management Committee with address 0x98308b6dA79B47D15e9438CB66831563649Dbd94
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@karpatkey is looking to join Lido Treasury Management Committee with address 0x7d4FDba7d1b22834eA75B5E45e4110Bf56E690f1
As we intend to participate with a Safe multisignature wallet, we have included the message in the following transaction:
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our confirmation in the calldata for the transaction linked. Address 0x9106CBf2C882340b23cC40985c05648173E359e7
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@Mol_Eliza is looking to join Lido Treasury Management Committee with address 0x620bD63538Bf10a87214b6187f5bc85926C2971f
Snapshot vote started
We’re starting the Proposal to approve Lido DAO Treasury Management Principles and authorize the formation of a Treasury Management Committee Snapshot, active till Thu, 27 Apr 2023 17:00:00 GMT . Please don’t forget to cast your vote!
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who are these people and they should prove that they have some sort of skill in trading crypto profitably
currently it seems like theyre a bunch of noobs
vitalik has sole control of the ethereum foundation
we have a massive bureaucracy that u want to bloat further
yes i think there should be one person in charge that has deep experience in crypto.
again, these people u propose to be on this committee, how many cycles have they been thru?