ReGOOSE: Updated goals for Lido in the light of MVI and restaking

[Ginsing]

agree with your points, we can see that the problem will not resolve by itself and we need to put focus there.
This reminds me of OpenSea<>Blur case with incentive dynamics, lesson is there.

[governance-data-bot]

Snapshot vote ended

The ReGOOSE: Updated goals for Lido in the light of MVI and restaking Snapshot vote concluded!
The results are:
Adopt reGOOSE: 58.5M LDO
No Action: 34.8k LDO

[matter]

@Hasu

LRTs suffer from lower liquidity, higher regulatory burden, worse brand, and higher risk.

This view is self-deception. Just like everyone thinks that their son is smarter than other people’s sons.

At least for those users who are willing to deposit stETH into the LRT protocol, these four points will not be true.

@Luyaoyuan1

Plus, users are neighbor with any project team, and care less of branding than you think.

I’m also surprised by Hasu’s arrogance towards this information/opinion. These four points are more to ensure that you will not encounter collapse failure in a short period of time.

@Luyaoyuan1

My point isn’t that LRTs will no longer use stETH, but rather that they will continuously absorb stETH and convert it to native ETH staking until Lido’s share continues to decline.

Mr. Lu is not discussing whether stETH will be refused deposit by the LRT protocol, but is discussing that LRTs may will eventually replace all/most LSTs.

In the long-term progressive changes, LRT protocols will not only compete to attract stETH (LSTs) deposits, but they will also find ways to replace the deposited LSTs with native ETH.

The LRT platform has two key data:

1. TVL (including various LSTs).

2. Proportion of native ETH deposits (excluding LSTs)
   They will think of 10,000 ways to increase this data, including providing various incentives.

When the market reaches a certain stage, the LRT protocol will definitely try every means to improve the second data, and Lido’s TVL will be emptied by these protocols through various methods.

No one is sure that LRTs will completely replace all/part of LSTs, so there is no problem letting stETH stay an LST. But Lido’s current response is too slow and too passive, mainly too passive. It seems like we are waiting and expecting the LRT protocol to collapse in the next bear market.

[matter]

@Hasu

If you allow me to steelman your post, you are saying that existing LRTs are rarely using stETH, and you extrapolate from there that LRTs will not use stETH in the future. I would offer a few counter points to that:

Under such a severe situation today, the arrogant Mr. Hasu does not even know what luyaoyuan is talking about.

[ross001]

I have said before that without steth’s first-mover advantage, the Ethereum staking track would not have anything to do with the lido team. If you look at the number of Swise tokens and Ethereum staked, they have very little Ethereum staked.
You can follow the projects that the community is doing well, and the team has been figuring out how to change, market, and get more Ethereum pledges (eeth.ezeth). These two projects can say that in a very short period of time their Ethereum The staking data of the square has made a huge leap. Why? Don’t they know how to better adapt to this staking track?

[ross001]

They not only put the pledge on Ethereum, but also on Ethereum’s L2. What is lido doing?
Do you think they will empower their own tokens in the mid- to late-term? Of course, they know that tokens are not just token governance, but also represent the influence of the project. They don’t just understand marketing. They can also listen to suggestions from the community. They can make changes. They can also lower their prejudices.

[Hasu]

@Luyaoyuan1

Based on the assumption that LRTs will ultimately become LSTs, I infer that in the future, LRTs will heavily transition excess assets (stETH, rETH, LSTs) to native ETH staking.

Well, this is exactly the assumption I don’t agree with.

Of course, if one believed that LRTs will eventually replace LSTs in the market place, then Lido should invest into becoming an LRT sooner rather than later.

However, I don’t see LRTs become more popular than LSTs for a very long time, if ever, and have supported this with arguments in the original post.

There are reasons why US treasury bills are the most popular asset in the world and are not replaced by higher-yielding but more risky money market funds. The biggest demand will always be for the least risky asset, and stETH should fight to become the T-bill of the digital economy, not the junk bond of the digital economy (or anything in between).

Finally, I am sure you have seen that the revenue produced by AVSs so far is zero? Not low, but actual zero. The only reason LRTs are this popular is because they are vehicles for farming airdrops, not because they provide more economic value.

Of course it would be nice for stETH market share if Lido could spray similar incentives, but a) as a more mature protocol it doesn’t have this option, and b) I am not even sure it would be a good use of funds anyway.

Success comes not from copying what everyone else does but being different, and then executing on that vision with conviction and excellence. You can disagree with what the direction is, but that’s what we are doing.

[Hasu]

@Luyaoyuan1

I’m afraid I haven’t seen Lido taking more aggressive measures to limit the damage.

Genuinely curious: If you could be benevolant dictator at Lido for the next year, what would your strategy be?